Search found 137 matches

by caliban
Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:40 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

I was thinking more of our attitude towards "lesser" beings. History shows humans will use any excuse, no matter how distorted, to justify our treatment of "lesser" beings. If we have any theory of consciousness, we'll use it, but if we don't have a theory of consciousness, we'l...
by caliban
Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:25 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

DeepBlue is a pretty good simulacra of a chess player. Deep Blue is an effective chess program, but it actually is lousy at simulating a human player. In fact it is an excellent illustration of how little we understand thought. Human players demonstrably "chunk" data--there are experiment...
by caliban
Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:17 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

We build convincing simulacra all the time, but they don't show much incremental progress towards consciousness - even on the level of a simple animal. I don't think they are very convincing at all--such as in your example. Clearly they are tricks, and take advantage of how people respond to social...
by caliban
Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:03 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

In my various posts in this thread I was contemplating the ramifications I think comtemplating the ramifications would be fascinating. In fact, I would propose a new direction: what would be evidence of consciousness? How could we tell? The Turing Test is probably flawed, but it's a start. Is there...
by caliban
Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:09 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

Sorry if I came across as argumentative. Oops. I mean "argument" as in a persuasive line of reasoning. Did not mean to slander you or accuse you of being, well, vulgar. :) but there's no particular reason to think so any more than there is a reason to think two watches that keep similar t...
by caliban
Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:07 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

We don't know what exactly consciousness is, so no one can say at present how to distinguish its mere outward signs from the actual occurrence. Speaking strictly for myself, I have a really difficult time being interested in arguing about the differences between "pretend" X and "actu...
by caliban
Tue Mar 27, 2007 12:10 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

Just because something acts conscious doesn't make it conscious. How do you distinguish between something that acts conscious and something that "is" conscious? Even philosophically? What is "real" consciousness? How do you know "true" consciousness even exists? How do...
by caliban
Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:16 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

Consciousness as we perceive it may well be illusion -- but it is a real phenomenon, insofar as it arises from electrochemical changes that can be measured and which alter or cease during sleep, coma or death. We can agree on that. And I believe that someday we will, or might, be able to "engi...
by caliban
Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:14 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

Until we understand forces and things, all knowledge is also relative and therefore only accurate to the degree we can engineer with it. Light is an easy example here. This is an example of where science parts with Aristotle. Aristotle has his four causes, and clearly and not without motivation SC ...
by caliban
Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:44 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

I agree with caliban that many philosophical terms are used loosely and refer to things that cannot be explained adequately to measure in any useful way (correct me if I've paraphrased poorly). I have a few to add: 1) Matter/energy: 2) Potency/force: Physicists have exapted these terms from common ...
by caliban
Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:40 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

Re: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness

Nevertheless, the fact that it's complex and still very partially known doesn't make it unknowable in principle. Forgive me my dissent. I'll agree to your above statement, but I'll add another: just because we have learned a lot does not means that it is knowable in principle, either. We're fencing...
by caliban
Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:42 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

Re: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness

Biologists are starting to tackle these questions at several scales, even though they are very aware that they're minefields -- not only because of definitions, but also because they impinge on religion and people's cherished ideas of what constitutes personality and identity. So they are no longer...
by caliban
Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:34 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

Re: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness

Windwalker wrote:P. S. Why are you grumpy? (*laughs*)

It's a principle with me.

So...really...can you give a definition of any of those terms, in such a way as to allow meaningful investigation? My ignorance is truly boundless.
by caliban
Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:03 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

Re: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness

Biologists are starting to tackle these questions at several scales, even though they are very aware that they're minefields -- not only because of definitions, but also because they impinge on religion and people's cherished ideas of what constitutes personality and identity. So they are no longer...
by caliban
Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:32 pm
Forum: The Poetry and Prose of Science and Science Fiction
Topic: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness
Replies: 38
Views: 128351

Re: Artificial Intelligence / Synthetic Consciousness

a quote I bumped into from Dijkstra: "The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim." SC I can appreciate Dikjstra's quote. Much of science, and especially physics, moves forward by deciding that some questions are to...

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